Posts by Frazzled UBM

25

"Are you a progressive thinker"

by Pistoff in

this was the theme of a talk at this week's 2nd weekly meeting with the co.. .

if you are a progressive thinker, so went the reasoning, you will accept all of the adjustments coming from the 'faithful and discreet slave'.. .

this so hurt my head when wife told me about it; really?.

Frazzled UBM

Incredible piece of spin - only the WBTS could have the gumption to twist logic to come up with this

152

the annual meeting of the governing body of jehovah's witnesses will be in october 2014.. .. in november 2013, just after the last one they published this now famous statement in the 15th of november 2013 watchtower page 16 paragraph 17 says:.

"at that time, the lifesaving direction that we receive from jehovahs organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint.

all of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not.".

Frazzled UBM

They are just reminders to the sheeple that they must obey without question - the impression that something will happen is deliberate but does not mean they actually think something really will happen, they have been making people believe something will happen imminently (and you need to obey no matter what) for over 100 years

11

My Book of Bible Stories- Sex and Violence

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

on a previous post on the bible's sex-violence several mentioned children and the yellow book (1978 version).

i will compile a list here.. one only needs to go to story 6 to find a man smashing his brothers skull in and picture of his brother's blood on the ground.

the very next story 7 has pictures of violence, clut worship, drunkeness, (unimplied sex).. the next story 8 shows a giant beating a person the death while holding them with one hand.

Frazzled UBM

HTBWC - I was shocked when I found out my wife had been reading this to my son without my knoweledge - I was even more shocked when I actually started to read through it. The graphic violence is one thing but the thing which came through loud and clear is how they uyse these images to impart phobias and deliver messages - so I went through and analysed the messages (I skimmed the whole thing cover to cover) - the most common one was that if you don't obey Jehovah he will kill or harm you in cruel ways (laying the groundwork for acceptance of Armageddon as reality), the second commonest is that if you obey Jehovah he will protect you (laying the groundwork for the idea that if you are part of the organisation you will be protectected from the wrath of god) and then other messages such as why it is dangerous to associate with worldly people. Once you do this analysis you realise how insidisous this book is. In my view there should be a ban on exposing children to this abusive material.

10

To understand cults we need to start understanding ourselves

by paranoia agent in

there are books out there that talk about why it is so difficult to convince someone that they are wrong.

hassan and singer specifically address destructive cults.

hassan refers to cult members under mind control and singer under thought reform.

Frazzled UBM

I very much agree with your premise that we are not as rational as we think we are or indeed we may not be rational at all. I have often put this view forward when arguing with those on here who think they are more rational than others because of their fondness for science and scorn for religion. Still, I do think that rather than individualistic and sociocentric being a dichotomy, that it is more of a spectrum with extremes at the ends and more balance towards the middle and that the WBTS is on the extreme of sociocentric along with authoritarian (fascism, communism, nazism).political movements

62

Roll call of those of us stuck in for our spouse or whos spouse is still in!

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i just wanted to get a feel for how many here have awakened to ttatt but are still carrying on some jw activities to pacify them and keep the peace.

also trying to hear from those who have left, but whose spouse has stayed in the wt and in the marriage.. for me it comes down to my own mental anguish.

i am mentally tortured by attending the meetings, yet i feel compelled to because my wife would kill me with her personality if i had her drag 2 small girls by herself there.

Frazzled UBM

Raton - I am in the same boat as you. I overloaded my wife with TTATT and it was totally counterproductive - she went into full cult personality mode and shut down. According to my new improved apprach I don't speak to her about TTATT at all. I love bomb her and arrange family activities to do as an alternative to the KH.

It is a matter of using Witness recruiting tactics in reverse - love bombing and doing a good witness (by showijng through your behaviour that worldly peole are ntowaht the WBTS portays us as. If you are going to introduce TTATT I would use that approach rather than attack doctrine. Something along the lines of 'What did they say about worldly people in the WT study, Awake, Watchtower or in the meeting this week?' When they said that did you think of me? Do you think I behave in the way they say worldly peole behave? What about (name your familoy members who are not Witnesses who she is fond of) are they like that?' This should start to introduce doubt. Good luck

BU2B - hang in there buddy and keep up the good fight. Cheers Fraz

62

Roll call of those of us stuck in for our spouse or whos spouse is still in!

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i just wanted to get a feel for how many here have awakened to ttatt but are still carrying on some jw activities to pacify them and keep the peace.

also trying to hear from those who have left, but whose spouse has stayed in the wt and in the marriage.. for me it comes down to my own mental anguish.

i am mentally tortured by attending the meetings, yet i feel compelled to because my wife would kill me with her personality if i had her drag 2 small girls by herself there.

Frazzled UBM

I never was a Witness but my wife is - she has stopped going regularly so she spends time with me and my son. I arrange a lot of family activities on Sundays to keep her away from the KH. She doesn't talk to me about what is going on in her head because she views me as an opposer and so is not open about what she is thinking. This can be very frustrating.

I don't think she knows TTATT but I suspect she has started to question what is taught about worldly people and the imminent arrival of Armageddon. Sometimes the cult personality appears when the guilt and shame for not attending the KH seems to kick in. I suspect this may be triggered by shepherding calls (I overheard at least one call form an elder) but she won't acknowledge that.

I have offered to write letters or pay for legal advice to protect her from being df'd or pressured to da but she has not taken me up on the offer. Things are much better than a year ago when she attended regularly but the not knowing what she is thinking is difficult.

31

Large scale War in the Middle East

by designs in

is this spreading conflict, war, in syria and iraq, inevitable and some argue necessary.. new leaders rising with napoleon size ambitions, old monarchies trying to hold on to power.. religious ideologies and groups challenging one another.

battles for natural resources and redrawing lands and boundries.. are there parallels to wwi and wwii..

Frazzled UBM

designs - the answer to your OP is a resounding 'No'. There will not be another World War like WWI and WWII. We live in the age of civil wars and small regional skirmishes. That is all that is happening in Iraq and Syria. And even those civil conflicts are minor when compared to many others since WWII (Korea, Vietnam, Rwanda, Bosnia, Afghanistan etc.). Iraq may be heading towards some form of partition with the Kurds peeling off but it will be more difficult to separate the Sunnis and Shia and eventually the Shia majority will prevail (with Iran's help). The Islamicists causing trouble in Iraq are Sunnis and this has created an interesting alliance of conveience between the US and Iran. In Syria, Assad will hang on and gradually reassert control and the West's criticism of Assad has dulled as the West has realised that the Syrian rebels are mostly Islamicists. Tit for tat violence between Israel and the Palestinians is an old story and no worse than over the past 65 years. These conflicts are containable but if Iraq does start to break-up it will certainly increase tension as the neighbouring countries jockey for position and seek to protect their interests. George W created this geo-strategic crisis when he got rid of Saddam but the US will remain sufficiently engaged to make sure it doesn't spiral out of control. Your anxiety reflects your lack of a deep understanding of the region and the causes and history of the current conflicts. The best way to ease this anxiety is to learn more so you can put these events in context. Fraz

16

July 6 WT Study- Lesson they want you to learn

by bruh2012 in

- if you have a problem with someone in the congregation -it's your fault.

- only brothers have the immorality problem.

- brothers have 4 main vices on his mental shelf.

Frazzled UBM

just keep that blame the victim mentality rolling

38

Are You A Patriotic Person Since Leaving The Witnesses?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i'm into politics but i still don't consider myself patriotic..

Frazzled UBM

It is sometimes difficult to draw a line between Patriotism (Nationalism) and Jingoism. It is a form of super-tribalim - identification with one group to the exclusion of others. That may be harmless but when it translates into a sense of superiority or specialness - then it can become irrational or lacking in objectivity or an impediment to self-criticsm or inflexibility in thinking. Then it has negative overtones. A particular view of US nationalism resulted in the invasion of Iraq. This was a mistake which has back-fired badly. For most non-Americans (except Tony Blair and John Howard) it was apparent at the time that this was a bad idea. I remember having an argument with a couple of Americans immediately prior to the invasion about why it was a bad idea it was very simlar to trying to explain TTATT to a Witness who deosn't want to hear it. Full on cognitive dissonance - they couldn't rebut my arguments but became quite belligerent at my suggestion that the US administration had misread the situation and jumping to action far too quickly.

8

Raising Children in more than one language

by SonoftheTrinity in

i recently told my wife that i am speaking only in the jamaican dialect from now on in my house because she has failed to teach her children her native language because she has put religion first, manners and discipline second, their education third, and her native language somewhere at the bottom.

while i am not jamaican, nor have i been to jamaica i lived in a jamaican rastafarian community as a rastafarian.

i am now orthodox christian as are many rastafarians and i still consider myself culturally rastafarian but no longer identify with their heresies.

Frazzled UBM

My son spent the first 3 years of his life speaking Tagalog but now speaks English exclusively and has forgotten his Tagalog and now at 8 resists my wife and my attempts to get him to speak Tagalog. In my case my wife, who is a Witness, is fully on board with my son speaking her native language. She is a member of a Tagalog congregation (when she goes, which thankfully at the moment is very seldom). I hope he iwllk become more willing to relearn Tagalog when he is older because I agree with you that speaking more than one language is very helpful educationally and it will also help him to communicate better with his cousins in the Philippines when we visit.